Pink and Stink Are All Elite - WWF Survivor Series 1994

Neon lights. Cowboy hats. Clowns. Towels. Chuck Norris.
This week, Brad and Aaron rewind to WWF Survivor Series 1994 — a pay-per-view so weird it makes Heroes of Wrestling look like Wrestle Kingdom.

From Bret Hart’s 35-minute family therapy session with Bob Backlund to Jerry Lawler’s miniature monarchy of mayhem, it’s full-on professional wrestling weirdness from Vince McMahon’s Technicolor era. Add a casket match, an oversized Yokozuna, and a very confused Chuck Norris, and you’ve got one hell of an oddball Texas Thanksgiving.

The guys break down every bizarre moment, rank the matches, quote Meltzer, and wonder aloud why they keep doing this to themselves.

💀 “Pink and Stink Are All Elite.”
🎧 WWF Survivor Series 1994. Only on Grapple City Rewind.

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Music by Bradley Palermo & The Shadow Queens.

Created by Bradley Palermo & Aaron Fink.

Transcript

00:00.16
Aaron
Hello everyone, it's Aaron Fink from Grapple City Rewind. If you like what you hear on this episode, give us a review. Give us a five-star review, just like Dave Meltzer. you Maybe even seven stars if you feel like it.

00:12.76
Aaron
It'll go a long way in helping us to be discovered by more wrestling fans like you. And if you like this episode, we've got 20 plus other episodes you could listen to. There's a bunch of evergreen content. We talk about old pay-per-views.

00:24.83
Aaron
Give them a listen. You just might laugh. All right, let's cue that music.

00:28.64
Bradley Palermo
Hey.

00:31.28
Bradley Palermo
Hello and welcome to Grapple City Rewind, taking you all the way back to the iconic pay-per-views that shaped pro wrestling history.

00:42.18
Bradley Palermo
Today we are rewinding all the way back to when I was probably the most in love with wrestling as a young preteen boy.

00:52.99
Bradley Palermo
this is Survivor Series 1994, 1994, because we are in Survivor Series. territory with it being November and all. um We're talking Vince and Gorilla Monsoon wearing cowboy hats, talking about the Alamo and stuff, you know, that, that mid nineties aesthetic and with a neon lights and loud graphics and some deeply weird matches, some kind of cool, like technical stuff.

01:21.50
Bradley Palermo
We'll get into all of that um and more. I'm Bradley Palermo here as always with Aaron Fink. And Aaron, before before we go back to 1994 and talk about Survivor Series, I know that you went to 40 Years of Foley. kind of a Was it a spoken word Mick Foley set the other night?

01:37.87
Aaron
Yeah, yeah, I went to the improv at the er er it sorry excuse me at the Irvine improv at the Spectrum Center down in Orange County, California.

01:48.77
Aaron
And it was kind of like a almost like a stand up night. You know, he had two opening comics before him.

01:57.28
Bradley Palermo
Oh, wow.

01:57.61
Aaron
um One of them was sort of like the host or whatever. The second guy was actually telling jokes and there there were actually a pretty good amount of wrestling jokes, which was fun.

02:07.62
Bradley Palermo
Oh, that's cool.

02:08.74
Aaron
and um and then Foley came out and yeah, he was, you know, he was funny, but he was mostly just telling stories, observations and things that he had experienced. um He talked about Terry Funk for quite a bit.

02:21.24
Aaron
Some of the really early days of him on the ah with ECW and in Japan. He talked about the match that he lost his ear.

02:30.98
Bradley Palermo
a

02:31.84
Aaron
and he talked about hell in a cell with undertaker. And then he did a Q and a for like 20, 30 minutes. So yeah, it was cool.

02:38.76
Bradley Palermo
did you ask me Did you get to ask a question?

02:40.29
Aaron
I, I did not, I, I couldn't think of anything.

02:42.04
Bradley Palermo
No, you did not.

02:43.74
Aaron
um It was, i enjoyed it. I had a lot of fun. um i think for diehard fans like you and me, maybe there wasn't all that much new information per se.

02:56.10
Aaron
Like he wasn't like a expose or anything like that, but it was cool to see him and hear him talk. He's obviously very well-spoken and very funny. he has good timing and and always has.

03:05.14
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

03:07.34
Aaron
So yeah, we I enjoyed it quite a bit.

03:09.93
Bradley Palermo
and so I wonder what he does now besides these these like one-man shows because i know I think he wrapped up the podcast he had and you see him sometimes like acting and a bit on heels or whatever, but I wonder what he's i wonder what he's spending his time on lately.

03:26.16
Aaron
Probably just like, i mean, he so the thing that I learned about this show is um I think all of the money that... was raised in ticket sales and in merch sales and stuff like that.

03:40.38
Bradley Palermo
Oh.

03:54.88
Aaron
wrestlers who are, you know, uh, I should say retired wrestlers who are on hard times, whether that's, they don't have a job or they, you know, don't have a place to live or whatever. So, um, yeah, it's like a very good, I think it's a charitable organization, but, um, yeah, that was what all the proceeds of that night were going towards. And I think he said at the show that he had already raised something like 40 or $50,000. yeah, super cool.

04:20.40
Bradley Palermo
That's cool.

04:21.02
Aaron
yeah super cool

04:22.05
Bradley Palermo
i I found out recently someone was telling me that it was like a friend of a friend working at one of those organizations they have for actors.

04:22.30
Aaron
um

04:32.88
Bradley Palermo
And so like child actors, if they you know had a good... As long as you have a couple credits or you can prove that you were involved, um it's this private charitable organization. i guess there's a couple different ones, but it's the same thing. It's like if now all of a sudden you you know't you don't have housing and you're you know you have fallen on on hard times are you or you just need help with a loan. like They do all kinds of stuff for...

04:55.65
Bradley Palermo
for former actors. And it's good to know that they're doing that. There's another organization doing it for wrestlers. and Usually it's like philanthropists that put in like the big bucks for the, for the acting one, but it sounds like the wrestling one is cool is like raising money through shows and stuff too. So that's cool.

05:10.35
Aaron
Yeah, yeah. It was nice to know that the money was going somewhere good.

05:14.73
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

05:15.15
Aaron
and um So yeah, i had fun. um What else can we talk about with current products?

05:18.87
Bradley Palermo
Did you see our our dude CM Punk is ah finally like for real ah world champion in WWE, which i was excited about.

05:23.11
Aaron
Oh, yeah. Yeah,

05:28.37
Bradley Palermo
And that's happened since we last spoke.

05:30.35
Aaron
yeah. yeah

05:30.96
Bradley Palermo
I mean, I know the match was kind of mocked between him and Jay, um, the WWE world heavyweight title, of course, vacant because Seth freaking Rollins got, uh, injured.

05:42.14
Bradley Palermo
So somehow it ended up where Jay or Jay Uso and CM Punk went one-on-one on Saturday night's main event. And that was for the title and the world heavyweight title and Punk won, um,

05:54.55
Bradley Palermo
I mean, i he's getting old and I really wanted to see a run before he looks any fucking older than he already does.

06:00.65
Aaron
ah yeah Yeah, for sure.

06:00.89
Bradley Palermo
You know, so i'm I'm really, I'm actually really excited right now. um You know, you got, you got the Cody Rhodes universal champion on the other side and not a whole lot's really happening for me with that struggle. So I kind of want to see what punk does with ah his championship.

06:18.09
Aaron
i was excited to see him win and hold it for more than five minutes. Um, yeah.

06:22.09
Bradley Palermo
Right. Yeah. The other time it was brief. Yeah. Real brief.

06:25.07
Aaron
When he beat Gunther at SummerSlam, I think it was, um

06:28.02
Bradley Palermo
Mm-hmm.

06:28.59
Aaron
So yeah, I'm super stoked, happy for him. i you know I've heard people say, and maybe even him say, and like he doesn't need a championship, and I don't disagree with that.

06:39.25
Aaron
But I do like him, and I think that he has good feuds with people. He knows how to tell good stories. So even though he doesn't need to be champion, I think that it creates opportunities to make good content, to make good stories with other wrestlers.

06:56.50
Aaron
And

06:56.67
Bradley Palermo
Yeah, I mean, what's the best way to put over a younger wrestler than by eventually dropping the title to one, you know, so.

07:02.69
Aaron
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, on Monday Night Raw, he got into it with ah Logan Paul a bit and also The Vision. So, you know, they're they're starting to...

07:13.24
Bradley Palermo
Didn't LA Knight have a, has LA Knight get into that too?

07:16.98
Aaron
Yeah, I mean, he's he's been vying for the championship as well. um So I know that, you know, it's it's this...

07:24.58
Bradley Palermo
I feel like I saw Punk. No, maybe it was just Logan and Punk after the vision.

07:29.08
Aaron
Yeah, no.

07:29.56
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

07:29.72
Aaron
So Punk and Jay teamed up in a tag match against the Vision.

07:32.99
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

07:34.35
Aaron
And then at the end, I think it was like a double count out or something. And then the Vision were attacking Jay, they were attacking Punk, and then Logan Paul came out and you got you almost thought for a sliver of a second that maybe Logan was going to help Punk.

07:48.60
Bradley Palermo
Right. I remember that. Yeah.

07:50.02
Aaron
And then he pulled out his brass knucks and looked like he was going to attack the vision, but then he turned and he knocked Punk out. So I assume that they're maybe going to do another triple threat fatal four way at survivor series, which kind of annoys me.

07:55.27
Bradley Palermo
Yeah, yeah.

08:03.66
Aaron
I'd rather just see him in a one-on-one feud with somebody, but

08:06.88
Bradley Palermo
Absolutely, dude. I just bought tickets to that, so I don't want to see three ways and shit.

08:11.30
Aaron
we'll see. Yeah. I mean, who knows?

08:13.08
Bradley Palermo
I want to see...

08:13.80
Aaron
It could be him and Logan. ah that to me is a great feud. The two of them.

08:18.84
Bradley Palermo
Yeah, there Logan's really good. I'd like to see that, but I also feel like

08:23.55
Bradley Palermo
What I really want to see LA Knight and CM Punk for Survivor Series.

08:26.69
Aaron
That would be good too.

08:27.73
Bradley Palermo
But I guess I'm maybe I'm just making this up in my head that that's what I'm pulling for. But it's two baby two baby faces, technically, I guess.

08:32.39
Aaron
i mean, that's what we do.

08:36.45
Aaron
Yeah, that's true. And, you know, l a Knight definitely has sort of been almost in a kind of limbo for a while. And i think, unfortunately, I don't think that they would drop that Punk would drop the belt to LA Knight. So I don't know that it would really do all that much for LA Knight in the grand scheme of things.

08:55.54
Bradley Palermo
That's true. it's kind of like, what do you do with that guy at this point? It's like he was so hot couple years ago, and he never really he never got into like the world title picture.

09:01.86
Aaron
and I just kind of missed it,

09:06.84
Bradley Palermo
ah certainly never won it.

09:07.15
Aaron
but he's in it now, you know, so

09:08.78
Bradley Palermo
Yeah. I mean, eventually he'll end up with it, but it's just, he he's like, he's cooled off and he's kind of come back, but like, I don't know. I guess WWE's WWE's got me all into wanting to see stories finished, be finished.

09:20.47
Bradley Palermo
Cause I'm like, okay, I really wanted to see when punk would get it. and Now I kind of need to see LA night. These are all, these are all guys that are like in their forties, you know? So I kind of like, all right, we don't have a lot of time with this batch anymore.

09:32.25
Bradley Palermo
So before we move on, let me see you guys make some shit happen with,

09:32.49
Aaron
Yeah.

09:35.50
Aaron
Yeah. i I don't disagree with you on that either.

09:36.38
Bradley Palermo
know

09:39.28
Aaron
i think... you just They just need the right time. it just doesn't feel like the right time for LA Knight anymore. it it it definitely was a couple years ago, like you were saying, when he was getting huge crowd reactions.

09:45.33
Bradley Palermo
yeah

09:48.57
Bradley Palermo
yeah

09:50.82
Aaron
And i mean, I think, didn't he win like a battle royal and the place like lost their shit? It was like a would meaningless battle royal.

09:55.98
Bradley Palermo
Yeah, I think, right, because I think it was like a consolation prize because it was it was like everyone wanted to win him to win the Rumble a couple years ago and he didn't.

10:02.21
Aaron
Yeah.

10:08.03
Aaron
Or like Money in the Bank, maybe not this year, but last year.

10:09.82
Bradley Palermo
Yeah, yeah.

10:11.15
Aaron
i think he was in that and and yeah, people were pissed, but we'll see. well'll I'll be patient with that. um The other thing I was curious to get your thoughts on is the John Cena tournament, like the the tournament to be John Cena's last opponent.

10:26.17
Bradley Palermo
You know what I think?

10:27.43
Bradley Palermo
If they don't have John Cena available for multiple appearances to hype up his final match and all they get him for are like a couple of the last the last match and that's it.

10:38.10
Bradley Palermo
Then I suppose the tournament keeps some sort of drama and action happening involving the last match without Cena having to really be there. So I think.

10:47.76
Aaron
Well, there are he does have four more appearances, I think.

10:51.28
Bradley Palermo
Okay.

10:51.51
Aaron
So the tomorrow, Monday Night Raw, I believe is in Boston.

10:51.88
Bradley Palermo
All right.

10:57.51
Aaron
And then i think the the Raw after that is in the Garden, or maybe it's, I don't know. There's another Raw and it's ah it's at Madison Square Garden.

11:05.48
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

11:08.34
Aaron
He's also going to be at Survivor Series. And then it's his last match at Saturday night's main event. So he's got four appearances left. Um,

11:15.94
Bradley Palermo
Is he going to wrestle at Survivor Series?

11:18.22
Aaron
I don't know.

11:19.05
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

11:19.19
Aaron
that's I would assume not, but I'm almost getting a sense. So going back to Punk and the Vision for a second, we still don't know what the War Games match is going to be, um and I know they're going to have one.

11:31.74
Bradley Palermo
Right.

11:34.36
Aaron
So I'm kind of thinking maybe it's going to be like Punk, Jay, And some other people versus the vision and you need at least four people on a team. So right now the vision has.

11:46.85
Aaron
Braun breaker, Bronson Reed, maybe Logan Paul. I kind of think maybe the fourth, fourth member of that team would be Brock Lesnar.

11:55.36
Bradley Palermo
yeah

11:55.47
Aaron
And if you have Brock Lesnar on the vision side, maybe you get Sina on punk side. So it's like Sina J l a night and, and, and punk.

12:05.58
Bradley Palermo
Oh, and then Cena could have like a small victory over Lesnar where he's the actual, you know, gets kind of like, you kind of got to finish with a good guy winning, right?

12:07.73
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

12:14.45
Aaron
I would think so.

12:15.00
Bradley Palermo
every Every big story, like at the very end of the, right?

12:15.45
Aaron
i

12:18.62
Aaron
Yeah.

12:18.66
Bradley Palermo
Okay, go ahead.

12:18.90
Aaron
and But then if I think about it a little too hard, I'm like, I don't know if Brock would actually do a WarGames match. It seems like a lot for him. And he's got a very specific type of match that he has now.

12:29.77
Aaron
But that's like that's like my my hope is that if there is a war games match, it's not the MFTs versus the Wyatt six or whatever.

12:39.14
Aaron
Cause like, that'd be stupid.

12:39.18
Bradley Palermo
Oh God. Yeah. I think I'll just, uh, stay home, leave early.

12:43.56
Aaron
Leave early.

12:45.45
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

12:46.65
Aaron
Yeah, no, I, I would, I would, I mean, I would love to see the vision with Brock Lesnar and Logan Paul against punk J LA night and Sina. I think that'd be a really, really fun war games, but,

13:00.74
Bradley Palermo
Oh,

13:01.70
Aaron
Sorry. Do it again.

13:03.40
Bradley Palermo
yeah. Oh, did you want to say more?

13:05.63
Aaron
I was just going to say the tournament itself. ah Here, sorry. Let me start again. But the tournament itself, I'll be honest, I'm kind of underwhelmed by, especially because they're telling us all of the participants or most of the participants in the tournament. I'm like,

13:20.44
Aaron
i don't Now that I know who's in it, or at least I know like the first and know six or sorry seven of the eight people in the first four matches, I'm like, oh, that person's going to win, that person's going to win.

13:31.99
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

13:33.13
Aaron
It's like taking all the fun out of it. I would have much rather had a tournament where it's like, okay, here's the first match of the first round, and you don't know who it is, and that's why you tune in to Raw, because you want to see who it is.

13:43.60
Bradley Palermo
Right. I feel like tournaments in pro wrestling are generally it's bad.

13:49.64
Aaron
Stupid.

13:50.95
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

13:51.43
Aaron
Yeah.

13:51.36
Bradley Palermo
I mean, King of the Ring never really caught my attention that much. It was like, yeah, I might want to see the last match, but I don't really want to see everything that leads up to it. And I feel like...

14:01.97
Aaron
just takes the wind out of the sails. The only tournament I really like is like a G1 style, like the Continental Classic or whatever they call it in um in AEW.

14:07.04
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

14:09.73
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

14:10.87
Aaron
And then obviously the G1 in New Japan. But there is a mystery opponent for somebody on SmackDown next week.

14:18.96
Bradley Palermo
Yeah, I mean, I guess it makes SmackDown and Raw, I guess it could make it somewhat interesting.

14:19.22
Aaron
And that's kind of fun.

14:24.29
Bradley Palermo
I really do feel like television ah wrestling, and like maybe I'm burnt out on it or whatever, but the week-to-week stuff on on both AEW, but especially WWE right now, it's just like I watch the intros or whatever you kind of whatever promos they do at the beginning.

14:39.73
Bradley Palermo
and uh maybe a main event but like it just feels like really rough to get through these hours of television so i guess if you give me a reason maybe uh maybe this john cena thing could make it interesting i'll watch it if i turn it on and you actually make me want to see what happens next but most of the time they don't

14:56.18
Aaron
Yeah, I mean, the thing is, it's like, I can't remember what the matches are, but it's like Sheamus against Shinsuke or like Rusev against Miz or I don't know.

15:06.27
Bradley Palermo
I don't want to see any of that. No, none of those guys.

15:07.68
Aaron
Yeah, so there's the I think it's like, actually, I think it's Miz versus a mystery opponent, and people online seem to think it could be Joe Hendry.

15:08.51
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

15:13.92
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

15:16.37
Aaron
I think that would be fun. um

15:17.94
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

15:18.85
Aaron
but if But if it's Joe Hendry, I'm like, well, he's making it to the finals because he's probably going to be the one to face Cena.

15:25.10
Bradley Palermo
Oh my God.

15:25.50
Aaron
Because like that would be interesting.

15:26.04
Bradley Palermo
That's funny.

15:27.10
Aaron
you know So far, I think we know.

15:29.97
Bradley Palermo
WrestleMania?

15:31.85
Aaron
No, that was, he faced ort Randy Orton.

15:33.40
Bradley Palermo
Oh, Randy Orton. Yeah.

15:35.38
Aaron
Yeah, but he's been talking this entire year about how he wants to face Cena, Joe Hendry has. So it would it would be a big get for him.

15:40.35
Bradley Palermo
I mean, that's, was going to say that's a little bit out of his like perceived league, but I admire it if he gets it, you know?

15:43.44
Aaron
And

15:45.58
Aaron
well, he's manifesting it, you know.

15:49.86
Aaron
He's been on NXT a bunch. He hasn't really been on TNA at all. So I assume he's eventually coming to WWE. w e um

15:55.77
Bradley Palermo
Yeah. Yeah.

15:56.50
Aaron
But yeah, it's like Sheamus versus Shinsuke is a match. And I'm like, well, Sheamus is going to win that. Obviously, you know, like i can, like, that's the thing about knowing who the people are in the tournament is like, I can pick out who the winners are because they have history with Cena.

16:04.21
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

16:11.44
Aaron
And so they're like trying to build up this tension, but I'm excited to see who the mystery opponent is. I mean, I would lose my shit if it was Edge, but I just don't, it just doesn't seem possible.

16:21.36
Aaron
Like, I guess it is possible maybe, but I'd be shocked. That that would be pretty crazy.

16:25.85
Bradley Palermo
yeah Jericho.

16:27.77
Aaron
Jericho would also be super crazy, and I feel like it'd almost be a waste.

16:27.79
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

16:30.53
Aaron
I'd rather see Jericho at the Rumble.

16:32.22
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

16:38.08
Bradley Palermo
All right, we're rewinding to WWF Survivor Series 1994, which was November 23rd of that year at the Freeman Coliseum in San Antonio, Texas to an attendance of 10,000 people. comment On commentary, we had Vince McMahon and Gorilla Monsoon.

16:59.16
Bradley Palermo
They open it up in cowboy hats and they are hyping up that Alamo event. It's a monumental struggle, the Alamo, just like we'll have here tonight, Vince McMahon says, which is kind of true.

17:14.36
Bradley Palermo
there's There's quite a struggle. I don't know if it's the way he meant it. This is more of a struggle between the old school, like sort of... Traditional professional wrestling and the very, very cartoon 90s professional wrestling.

17:29.97
Aaron
Yeah.

17:30.17
Bradley Palermo
um ah maybe ah kind but Maybe a monumental struggle between um legit-looking sport and bullshit. I don't know.

17:40.33
Aaron
Cartoony bullshit.

17:40.93
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

17:41.29
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

17:42.25
Bradley Palermo
But um we we get it we get a little... kickoff with a shot of all the teams cutting promos from their locker rooms. Kind of ah usual opening for WWF around this time. They're getting ready for war, um is what they say. It doesn't really have a lot of intensity.

18:14.22
Aaron
Yes, and this is a five-on-five Survivor Series elimination match, which we don't really see in modern day anymore.

18:15.08
Bradley Palermo
Um,

18:21.83
Aaron
we Maybe like seven, eight years ago, there was one of these, but not in a while. And the bad guys team was the 1-2-3 Kid, British Bulldog, Razor Ramon, and then Fatou and Sione.

18:33.81
Aaron
And then the Teamsters was Diesel and Shawn Michaels, Jeff Jarrett, Jim Neidhart, and Owen Hart.

18:47.65
Aaron
Diesel's like his enforcer, right? Or something.

18:51.91
Aaron
and

18:53.28
Bradley Palermo
But if anyone doesn't know how the five-on-five elimination match works... It's a tag team match with way too many guys on each side. And when you pin someone from the other team, then the other team loses. That that person has to go away.

19:05.90
Bradley Palermo
The rest of the members, you have to pin five people to win.

19:09.12
Aaron
Yeah.

19:09.50
Bradley Palermo
um So this thing started off, I thought kind of slow because they went a while, man, before they eliminated anyone.

19:19.60
Aaron
Yeah.

19:20.16
Bradley Palermo
So, you know, you you just get a lot of back and forth. And I mean, ah we can go ahead and say Owen Hart is like extremely hated.

19:29.63
Bradley Palermo
They blew the shit out of him.

19:31.60
Aaron
Yeah.

19:32.07
Bradley Palermo
um Bulldog and Owen started off. And I mean, they do have some good chain wrestling, right? I mean, there were some good things about it.

19:36.95
Aaron
yeah here

19:37.96
Bradley Palermo
Like but Matt holds and like crisp sequences. And um the crowd loves British Bulldog. And they they definitely hate Owen and double J you know is out there and he does is like Ric Flair arm strut thing.

19:52.19
Aaron
The Fargo strut, I think is what he calls it.

19:54.40
Bradley Palermo
Is that what it is the Fargo's do you like Jeff Jarrett's do you like his strut better than Ric Flair strut.

20:00.27
Aaron
No, no.

20:00.19
Bradley Palermo
and No.

20:01.37
Aaron
Ric Flair struts much better. But I think that's kind of the point is he's everyone's just booing him because he's pretending to be something he's not.

20:02.99
Bradley Palermo
That's the strut. Yeah.

20:09.51
Aaron
Like, think he says he's like a country singer and they talk about how he has an album. i can't remember the name of it. And they're like, yeah, no one's going to hear it. ah ah Because like it doesn't exist.

20:17.41
Bradley Palermo
Yeah, he would show up like in a bus with his face painted on the side of it, like a country singer and stuff.

20:23.10
Aaron
Yeah.

20:23.16
Bradley Palermo
and like yeah i mean We talked about this on the show before, but I used to wonder, even when I was a kid, I was like, if he's such a big country singer, like what's he doing wasting his time down here wrestling? you know And how come I only hear about him as a wrestler?

20:34.85
Bradley Palermo
Maybe engaged in that, but everyone had to have like a career certain eras.

20:38.13
Aaron
Right.

20:38.24
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

20:40.34
Aaron
Except Razor Ramon, who was just a bad guy. he didn't have a career.

20:43.78
Bradley Palermo
yeah

20:43.96
Aaron
come Maybe he was a cocaine dealer. That was his career.

20:46.01
Bradley Palermo
I think, yeah, I think that's what it was supposed to be.

20:46.49
Aaron
Yeah.

20:49.04
Bradley Palermo
But um um but yeah, eventually, you're like, yeah there's a ton of guys in the ring. There's some chaotic moments. But it's i looked it we were 20 minutes into the show.

20:59.22
Bradley Palermo
And there is no one eliminated yet. But then, Mr. Big Daddy Cool Diesel... he comes in, takes charge, starts wiping people out left and right. Fatou, one, two, three, kid, the other head shrinker, all in a matter matter of seconds. And it's, and then I'm like, okay, this is interesting.

21:16.29
Bradley Palermo
Cause now diesel's.

21:17.25
Aaron
It's like Razor's one on five or something.

21:19.98
Bradley Palermo
Yeah. Um, it's yeah. It goes five on two. Then bulldog is counted out, leaving a razor one against five. And, um,

21:27.43
Bradley Palermo
You know, Shawn Michaels has a bad track record of super kicking his own tag team partners.

21:33.34
Aaron
He does.

21:33.98
Bradley Palermo
It had happened with Marty Jannetty in the famous barbershop scene.

21:34.09
Aaron
Yeah.

21:37.86
Bradley Palermo
And Shawn Michaels is is kind of abusive to to Diesel. He kind of uses him as the muscle, but he won't like, he won't, he won't, what is it, tag in.

21:43.89
Aaron
Yeah.

21:47.06
Bradley Palermo
um He's making Diesel do this, making Diesel do that. And one thing leads to another you Somebody moves out of the way and Shawn Michaels accidentally superkicks Diesel, pisses him off. So now he starts kicking everyone's ass in his own team. He already beat everybody on the other team.

22:02.52
Bradley Palermo
And they fight off and the referee counts out the entire team, which I thought was kind of shitty booking because I think you should have to count out each member.

22:08.95
Aaron
yeah

22:11.74
Bradley Palermo
Okay, we need another one in.

22:12.02
Aaron
Individually, yeah

22:13.33
Bradley Palermo
You're not coming in, count it out.

22:14.58
Aaron
Right.

22:14.61
Bradley Palermo
But he just counted to 10 and said, okay, your whole team's out.

22:17.22
Aaron
Yeah, that was...

22:17.45
Bradley Palermo
So it was kind of a rushed finish.

22:19.38
Aaron
That was the thing that annoyed me is the eliminations. um You know, the British Bulldog got got a count out because Owen and Neidhart, I think, were like distracting him and keeping him off of the ring apron.

22:33.32
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

22:33.44
Aaron
And yeah, and like you said, once once Sean and Diesel had their spat, Sean left and...

22:41.69
Bradley Palermo
He drove away at one point.

22:43.75
Aaron
Yeah, he drove away after the match. Sean left the ring. Everyone else left the ring except for Diesel, I think. um Or no, he left too. was just like... I don't know. I, I did, I was a little disappointed by the finish. i like you said to me, the most interesting part of it was the Sean and diesel stuff, because I'm pretty sure this sets up their feud that they end up having.

23:05.57
Bradley Palermo
Oh, yeah. yeah

23:06.28
Aaron
I would assume it's right after this or maybe at the beginning of the following year, but, um, Yeah, you know, this match I wrote down, it was pretty good. um I usually don't love giant matches like this, but I felt like the crowd was excited enough to keep me invested. It just, it was a little long and that's kind of normal for these ah Survivor Series elimination style matches. They're all a minimum of 15 minutes usually and that's fine as long as you're gate you know you're you're capturing my interest and holding my attention and and I'm not saying that this one didn't, but

23:39.33
Aaron
Overall, I was a little disappointed with this.

23:41.47
Bradley Palermo
And as always, we've been giving the Dave Meltzer star ratings from the Wrestling Observer newsletter. He's been rating pretty much every match in professional wrestling since we've been alive.

23:53.90
Bradley Palermo
um On this one, he gave it What do you think, Aaron?

23:57.32
Aaron
two

23:58.35
Bradley Palermo
He actually gave it a three and a half, which is, if you guys know Dave Meltzer, that's kind of big for him for WWF.

24:04.60
Aaron
Yeah, that surprises me.

24:05.52
Bradley Palermo
I don't know. Kind of surprises me, but I'm sure there wasn't a lot of like other, there wasn't a lot of competition at this very, at this point. than that, I guess there's WCW.

24:13.28
Aaron
Well, when you when you look at when you look at the next match, maybe he was just like, yeah, I got to give something a decent star rating.

24:21.46
Bradley Palermo
So the next match is the Royal Family versus Clowns R Us. This is another Survivor Series elimination match, which I think is annoying to put two right next to each other. But the Royal Family is Jerry, the King Lawler, who I do love.

24:33.70
Bradley Palermo
And he doesn't do a lot in the ring. He's just kind of an interesting old school guy. And he's with three little people um called ah Cheesy, Queesy, and Sleazy.

24:44.25
Bradley Palermo
And they are versus Clowns Are Us, which is Dwayne the Clown. And this incarnation is played by Ray Apollo doing Dwayne the Clown. And he's with, I don't know, some ah more little people. I think it's called like Pink, Stink, and Wink or something.

24:57.83
Aaron
Dink. Yeah.

24:58.27
Bradley Palermo
Oh, Dink.

24:58.71
Aaron
Dink, pink and wink.

25:00.11
Bradley Palermo
There's no one called Stink. Sorry. I'm...

25:02.81
Aaron
It's just how you feel about the match.

25:04.72
Bradley Palermo
No, I'm, yeah, I'm kind of irritated. um You know, I don't mind little people wrestling like an old, old school tapes. You know, you just have two little, it's almost like weight class. You're like, all right, well, we're not going to put a six foot guy in here with a four foot guy, but Watching these men humiliate themselves as little people just grating and gross and like they have to have these weird like pink stink names and cheesy queasy wheezy whatever sleazy and it's like they're fucking you know from Snow White or something and

25:20.32
Aaron
Yeah, it was degrading.

25:35.32
Bradley Palermo
i yeah I don't know, man. It's just, it was slapstick comedy. Um, there, everyone's running around in a little row and I don't know, somebody hits somebody probably in the balls or, you know, someone bends over to find the little person and they fall over.

25:48.89
Aaron
It was horrible. You can just say it was horrible.

25:50.08
Bradley Palermo
i mean, it was so dumb. Uh, yes, it was horrible. I'll say it. Um,

25:56.73
Aaron
I hated it. i i wish I didn't ever have to watch it.

25:57.59
Bradley Palermo
There was Burger King.

26:00.01
Aaron
I texted you and I was like, what the fuck are you making me watch right now?

26:00.86
Bradley Palermo
Yeah. what do you The crowd was chanting Burger King. Lawler gets really mad about that. Someone tosses him a Burger King crown. this is These are like the highlights.

26:11.11
Bradley Palermo
This is like the best stuff.

26:11.47
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

26:12.23
Bradley Palermo
um Doink at some point got eliminated, leaving his mini army to fend for themselves, which is, I don't know, just there's not a lot to ah say. Lawler's, of course, like cheating and

26:24.09
Aaron
And also berating his his royal court team members because they're not doing a good enough job.

26:24.18
Bradley Palermo
everyone

26:27.82
Bradley Palermo
Well Right And somehow he wins through of cheating Lawler does But like it's absurd And honestly When it comes to the creative side of things You Ended of the first

26:40.46
Bradley Palermo
elimination match the other the first match of the evening you you ended it with the team imploding and fighting with each other and then you have another survivor series match and you end it with the team imploding fighting with each other this is you guys are so dumb right now but um what do you what do you think mouth this was a 16 minute car crash but what do you think Meltzer called it

26:57.84
Aaron
Yeah.

27:04.45
Aaron
Half a star or a dud, probably.

27:06.64
Bradley Palermo
I am shocked to say, because I thought it would be a dud, he went two stars, which for him, we realized, is basically means standard match.

27:15.38
Aaron
Yeah.

27:15.37
Bradley Palermo
like Just an acceptable match.

27:18.44
Aaron
Yeah, which is unfathomable, but okay.

27:18.52
Bradley Palermo
you know

27:21.80
Bradley Palermo
yeah these These ratings are wild on this one. like But um okay, so the third match is is Whiplash. Because if this was if this last one was absurd slapstick comedy, and you get that in the Indies sometimes, like you go, you you see like two like Matt wrestlers and you see like just pure like goofiness.

27:41.06
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

27:41.30
Bradley Palermo
And then you'll, you know, maybe you'll get like a tag team with some names for that used to be in WWE, whatever. So I understand like that's how you can put something together. But this was like so much contrast because the next match, is the WWF Championship in the middle of this thing.

27:53.88
Bradley Palermo
And it's a submission match between the champion, Bret the Hitman Hart, with the British bulldog at his side versus Bob Backlund with Owen Hart by his side.

28:04.64
Bradley Palermo
And the stipulation is throwing it, throwing the towel rule. So your corner has to throw in the towel for you to submit. You can't submit on your own accord. Your, your partner, your, um, your buddy in your, in your corner has to be like, you've had enough.

28:18.35
Bradley Palermo
So, um, This match was, I thought, was compelling. It wasn't perfect, but it was interesting. I guess I should mention that Todd Pettengill interviews Bull Nakano before this, and her hair is so vertical that it's like like two full cans of Aquanet.

28:33.45
Aaron
but That was always her thing though, yeah.

28:35.22
Bradley Palermo
Yeah, I know, but it's just always interesting. But then but then we go back to Brett and Backlund and Nick gets started, and it's a pretty serious match. You have Brett the Hitman Hart is super over. Everyone is just screaming for this guy. It's fucking nuts.

28:47.66
Bradley Palermo
The fans lose their mind for him. And Backlund at 44 is, you know, considered to be ancient. He kind of does look old, but he moves like grapple machine. Like you believe that that guy you know, just old school guy, that he would fuck you up.

29:00.29
Aaron
yeah. yeah

29:01.67
Bradley Palermo
What did you think of this one?

29:02.04
Aaron
yeah I honestly was pretty bored. um

29:04.90
Bradley Palermo
Oh really?

29:05.63
Aaron
Yeah, I mean, first of all, it's 35 minutes. And, you know, it okay it was all about the submissions.

29:08.98
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

29:12.92
Aaron
I just wish that, like, it was a... It just didn't feel like a wrestling match, like in in a professional wrestling match. It felt like they were just trading submissions back and forth for a lot of it.

29:23.54
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

29:23.85
Aaron
And, you know, the crowd was engaged, like you said. i just really wasn't, especially... and I'm skipping ahead towards the end of the match, but there was, a i swear to God, Brett was in the cross face chicken wing for 10 full minutes.

29:39.04
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

29:39.83
Aaron
And that was just exhausting. I was like, Oh, you're just taking all of the suspense away from me. And like, you know, while, while he's in the the chicken wing, Owen and bulldog are fighting on the outside.

29:51.90
Aaron
I think bulldog like smacks his head on the steps and gets knocked out. And so Brett has no one to throw in the towel and that's why he's in the hold for so long.

30:01.66
Aaron
Um, and eventually his, his parents come over the barricade and his mom picks up the towel and she throws it in. um

30:08.23
Bradley Palermo
Yeah, i think i think that's the weakest part of the match, but I think that the meat of it that we skipped over was is more just like... i mean, I can see how how it would feel boring, but to me, it was like it was like slow, like, mat-based wrestling.

30:18.82
Aaron
Maybe I was just in a bad mood or something.

30:24.98
Bradley Palermo
To me, there was no wasted motion. like Everything went into something else, and it seemed like they were were selling real pain while they were... like I just thought like these guys, you know...

30:35.76
Bradley Palermo
Brett trained by the dungeon, you know, you get stretched for hours, you hear like that kind of stuff.

30:36.04
Aaron
Yeah.

30:39.11
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah, let me show you this. Let me show you this thing right here,

30:42.80
Bradley Palermo
yeah and then brett's punches always look like really sharp i feel like he knows i mean i hear wrestlers talk about like always know where the camera is i feel like he really knows where the camera is because there's so i mean there's only that's the only way it could look so good and be so and still be so safe because every time he he lays in the punch it just looks like he really he really knocks that clocks that guy and um

30:43.18
Aaron
stew

30:54.23
Aaron
yeah

31:07.36
Bradley Palermo
Yeah, it's methodical. It's long. Um, I, but I thought Backlund hit a pile driver that looked really fantastic again, like however he, his knee was hiding the impact from the camera.

31:14.02
Aaron
yeah i do remember that

31:18.58
Bradley Palermo
Like this stuff just did not look fake. And I love that. Um, and then, you know, Brett gets a sharpshooter at some point, Owen fucks that up for him. Somehow he breaks it up.

31:28.88
Bradley Palermo
Um, at,

31:29.72
Aaron
Yeah, he came into the ring, I think, somehow.

31:31.34
Bradley Palermo
yeah and Yeah, and then you get into the emotional manipulation where Owen's pretending to be concerned for Brett to get his parents to throw in the towel. And that goes on for a very long time. But but I kind of, in a world where everything's like 15 seconds long and everything's just so fast, I kind of liked that this really odd, like, this just submission hold where he was clearly like... like he needed to tap out, but he couldn't get out of it or whatever.

31:57.49
Aaron
Yeah.

31:58.29
Bradley Palermo
was going for so long. ah kind of liked the complication of that. Like, this is, this is kind of stressing me out. So I was, I was like, to me, it was much more gripping than it than it was for you.

32:08.11
Bradley Palermo
But, um but I, I didn't love, i don't love that like Stu and Helen or his, Brett's parents and his entire family are in like evolved in everything he ever does, you know?

32:09.24
Aaron
Yeah. i

32:17.29
Aaron
I just feel like there's so many other Bret Hart matches that I like a lot more and maybe that's because they're flashier and they have like more ups and downs than this one did. But yeah, I don't know.

32:26.92
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

32:28.08
Aaron
Maybe I was just grumpy. This one didn't do it for me. I was just like, oh my God, he's been in this hole for five minutes and then now it's seven minutes. That's nine minutes. What the fuck?

32:36.67
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

32:37.49
Aaron
Just throw in the towel.

32:39.32
Bradley Palermo
Right. um Yeah, I was...

32:40.98
Aaron
Meltzer must have given this like a like a three and a half, I'm assuming.

32:44.95
Bradley Palermo
You're close. Yeah, four.

32:46.28
Aaron
Yeah.

32:46.20
Bradley Palermo
um but But I looked it up. At the time, like it wasn't well-received. I think on the Wikipedia, I was reading about it. There's... There was a lot of people that had problems with the length of this match and it's 35 minute long match, but.

32:57.60
Aaron
I have no problem with long matches. I love long matches if they're, if they hold my attention and, and this one, it's not like I hated it the entire time.

33:03.12
Bradley Palermo
Right. course.

33:06.58
Aaron
Like it, it, it was interesting at times for sure. It's just, it got to be, just felt like it was all about the submissions. And of course that's what it was. It was a submission match, but I don't know.

33:17.50
Aaron
I guess I just would have liked a little bit more variety in terms of what was happening. Like in the in the second half of the match.

33:25.10
Bradley Palermo
Bob Backlund surprised. I mean, I was also surprised. I guess I knew this, but still like, it's kind of shocking that Bob Backlund, former champion for many, many years in WWWF, but he, um, he regained the world title and at 44, this now heel, you know, old, old timer came back, got, got the belt It was kind of surprising.

33:48.15
Bradley Palermo
I would imagine people there were surprised.

33:48.86
Aaron
yeah

33:50.36
Bradley Palermo
His reign, I should mention, only lasted for three days. He was a trench transitional champion. They did it so um so they could put it on Diesel and they wouldn't have to like have Diesel beat Bret Hart.

34:01.45
Aaron
ah

34:02.70
Bradley Palermo
um And Diesel, when he beat Bob Backlund for it, he did it in eight seconds, which is um pretty always pretty impressive or pretty embarrassing or something.

34:07.82
Aaron
Wow. Embarrassing. Yeah.

34:11.57
Bradley Palermo
But but yeah...

34:12.22
Aaron
and Both. but Impressive for diesel, embarrassing for backland.

34:12.82
Bradley Palermo
yeah Yeah, because in this era, they're trying to sell Diesel as sort of just like a squasher.

34:18.76
Aaron
A monster.

34:19.42
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

34:19.84
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

34:20.55
Bradley Palermo
And then we get another elimination Survivor Series match for match four, which is the Million Dollar Team versus Guts and Glory. Million Dollar Team, of course, comprised of Ted DiBiase and a squad of dudes that he, in story, probably paid a bunch of money to. In this case, it was King Kong Bundy, Bam Bam Bigelow.

34:38.08
Bradley Palermo
my boy Tatanka and the heavenly bodies, which is Tom Pritchard and Jimmy Del Rey. Guts and glory on the other side is Lex Luger, Mabel, Adam bomb and the smoking guns, Billy and Bart gun.

34:49.99
Aaron
Adam Baum, dude.

34:49.96
Bradley Palermo
um

34:50.91
Aaron
I remember him.

34:52.20
Bradley Palermo
Did you know, I don't know ah with our age difference was married with children, a thing where, when you were a kid, like, do you remember watching that TV show?

35:03.24
Aaron
I didn't watch it much. I think I watched it when I was older in reruns, but I know of it.

35:08.34
Bradley Palermo
Do you know um Al Bundy on that show?

35:10.19
Aaron
Yeah, yeah, Ed O'Neill.

35:11.61
Bradley Palermo
Do you know where the the writers got his name? but but Why they named him Al Bundy?

35:16.00
Aaron
Is it because of King Kong Bundy?

35:17.50
Bradley Palermo
As a King Kong Bundy.

35:19.14
Aaron
That's funny. I didn't know that.

35:19.79
Bradley Palermo
And do you know how many times King Kong Bundy was on the show? Twice. Once as King Kong Bundy.

35:27.36
Aaron
it Was he his relative?

35:29.03
Bradley Palermo
Yes.

35:30.21
Aaron
Amazing.

35:30.18
Bradley Palermo
And yeah. And then once for... for... for I don't know what the other one was. Well, who cares? He was on the show as a character once and once as as King Kong when he's like related to Al Bundy in the show.

35:42.100
Aaron
funny

35:42.99
Bradley Palermo
um So i I just learned all this shit. I was looking up stuff about King Kong when he is a so fucking ugly motherfucker.

35:50.63
Aaron
yeah he's rotund and bald yeah he's like a conehead

35:51.54
Bradley Palermo
It's just and like, but his head is like, it's like somehow like short and round and pointy at the same time. It's just he's Yeah, he's he's scary, like circus-looking dude.

36:04.72
Bradley Palermo
um The announcer says the million-dollar team weighs in at 1,314 pounds. So I'm sure it was that. um

36:13.98
Aaron
It was mostly Bam Bam and Bundy.

36:14.03
Bradley Palermo
Luger is ah yeah luger is slicked in some oil, man. I would say a good quart of baby oil.

36:20.52
Aaron
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

36:23.32
Aaron
Yeah.

36:24.82
Bradley Palermo
Tatanka locks up with him and he's instantly shiny too. Tatanka's front, as soon as he locks up with Luger, he's like dows in the baby oil.

36:28.75
Aaron
yeah

36:34.11
Bradley Palermo
um But yeah.

36:35.55
Aaron
It's funny to see because like this is is like only a year after the WrestleMania WrestleMania that we watched in Vegas where Luger was the narcissist.

36:45.21
Aaron
So they had already made the switch to him being a baby face.

36:45.39
Bradley Palermo
Hmm.

36:48.09
Aaron
And I'm not saying that the crowd wasn't into him, but like not as much as I thought they would be um and not as much as he was in WCW beforehand, like in the one that we watched recently.

36:53.42
Bradley Palermo
No.

37:00.42
Bradley Palermo
Yeah, I think they were trying to push Luger and it just, I think, I just don't think he doesn't have a, he doesn't have like, I want to say charisma.

37:04.25
Aaron
Didn't work.

37:09.18
Bradley Palermo
I guess he doesn't have charisma. You know, he just doesn't have that likability thing, you know?

37:11.37
Aaron
yeah

37:13.86
Aaron
Yeah, I mean, he just, he was never like a terrific promo. He's always like pretty good in the ring, but I think he was just naturally better as Yeah.

37:23.40
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

37:24.04
Aaron
This match I actually enjoyed, though.

37:24.08
Bradley Palermo
i think

37:25.80
Aaron
I don't know why I enjoyed it a bit more than all the other ones for some reason. Maybe it was just because it felt like there was more heat between the people in the match.

37:35.52
Aaron
like ah you For whatever reason, I was like, oh man, these people really don't like each other, you know?

37:40.45
Bradley Palermo
Yeah, and it's just like, there's just so many big dudes. Like, Mabel is terrifying. He's so big.

37:45.91
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

37:46.30
Bradley Palermo
Like, every dude is, like, bigger than the other, and the next guy. And Bam Bam moves around like a cruiserweight, even though he's fucking huge.

37:54.02
Aaron
Yeah, doing the moonsault.

37:54.65
Bradley Palermo
And, yeah. At one point, they had, like, Mabel and Bam Bam, like, tumble over the top rope together, which is, you're talking about, like, a thousand pounds of dude.

38:06.39
Aaron
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

38:07.25
Bradley Palermo
Like it was fucking nuts. Like it's fun to watch.

38:09.22
Aaron
Yeah.

38:10.30
Bradley Palermo
I mean, I can, I didn't really appreciate Bam Bam when I was a kid. Like now when I watch it, I just think about the science behind that. Like how you move around, how you throw your body like a fucking rocket at shit.

38:18.39
Aaron
Yeah.

38:23.14
Bradley Palermo
And you're so big, you know? um And I don't know, man. In hindsight, these guys, King Kong, Bundy, Bam Bam. lot of these dudes aren't alive anymore.

38:34.54
Aaron
Yeah, well, kind of makes sense.

38:34.52
Bradley Palermo
Mabel.

38:36.26
Aaron
They were huge and they threw their bodies around with reckless abandon.

38:36.64
Bradley Palermo
Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say, is you know it's not suggested to go do that, but like it's pretty pretty crazy if you do. I'll watch it Yeah.

38:45.98
Aaron
mm-hmm. Yeah, this, ah like I said, I like this one. um It was a bit more normal of a Survivor Series match with actual eliminations and not like counting out four people at once.

39:14.61
Bradley Palermo
yeah um dbassi's team won after mabel and guns get eliminated bam bam and bundy are the survivors the finish was um well that's all i have is king kong bundy and bam bam bigelow survive for the million dollar team so i mean yeah it was fun it it was fine uh the

39:32.69
Aaron
Let's see. Oh, yeah, here. Tatanka pinned Bart. Bundy pinned Billy. Luger fought back, pinned Tatanka with a small package, and then Bundy pinned Luger after performing a splash.

39:46.54
Bradley Palermo
Nice. and that if we haven't mentioned already the bam bam moonsault that he hit got a huge reaction so um yeah this one got a two and a half stars from dave meltzer one of the lower ratings on this on this card but um we got a segment after this a bob backland promo where tom pettengill interviews backland backstage after his title win and backland is like so unhinged it's pretty hilarious he's yelling about how he's gonna

39:51.86
Aaron
Yeah, crazy.

39:58.34
Aaron
Hmm.

40:05.18
Aaron
Yeah.

40:15.10
Bradley Palermo
pasteurize and homogenize everyone.

40:17.37
Aaron
Yeah.

40:17.30
Bradley Palermo
And his voice is cracking.

40:17.79
Aaron
Yeah.

40:19.60
Bradley Palermo
Like he's like a preacher in the middle of like, you know, a cocaine psychosis or something.

40:19.80
Aaron
yeah

40:24.69
Bradley Palermo
It's, he's like, he literally says in the promo, my god dreams I feel like God like God.

40:29.97
Aaron
yeah

40:33.04
Bradley Palermo
I don't think the the crowd really knew what to think. I mean, this guy he's always just telling you, you know, the kids or have no respect.

40:36.64
Aaron
No.

40:40.53
Bradley Palermo
And, yeah you know, its he's like a like a teacher or preacher or something, but but in a very, very nutso, schizo way.

40:47.79
Aaron
Live me away.

40:48.100
Bradley Palermo
Yeah. And then we go to um

40:51.97
Bradley Palermo
ah the under... i have Have we talked about this? i have theories that Vince liked to fuck with Bob Backlund because that was his dad's champion. And I was i think he tries to... I think he's he's trying to like squash the or bury the previous, you know, administration.

41:06.84
Aaron
We have not talked about that, but I guess that doesn't seem too out of line. he he is He is definitely a product of a bygone era at this point.

41:12.42
Bradley Palermo
yeah

41:18.23
Aaron
And that kind of makes sense because the last time we saw Backlund was in the WrestleMania 93 that we watched. And I think he got, was that him versus Razor? And Razor just like obliterated him or something?

41:28.96
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

41:29.88
Aaron
Yeah, they just shit all over Backlund a lot of the time.

41:29.82
Bradley Palermo
Yeah. I mean,

41:32.75
Bradley Palermo
Yeah, I think people that are like into like power and like people like Vince McMahon, I think that that matters to them being like, Oh, I got this from my father, but look what I'm gonna do like, or Dusty used to compete with us. I'm putting them in polka dots.

41:46.71
Bradley Palermo
You know, like, I think he he wanted to be like, now you work for me, bitch, you know, go go dance, you know, like, that's, I mean, that's just my theory.

41:51.35
Aaron
Yeah, maybe.

41:55.26
Bradley Palermo
I have that's not founded on anything. But um The main event was The Undertaker versus Yokozuna, which um I've seen these two and in at a house show we figured out the other day in 1994, which would have been the same month.

42:06.85
Aaron
Yeah.

42:09.48
Bradley Palermo
i so When I was a kid, I saw these two.

42:10.90
Aaron
Oh.

42:11.97
Bradley Palermo
um

42:12.55
Aaron
So they were probably prepping for this.

42:12.54
Bradley Palermo
I think Yeah, I would have seen him, I think it was November 10th-ish, and this would have been on Thanksgiving, this match.

42:19.11
Aaron
Uh-huh.

42:21.26
Bradley Palermo
So yeah, it it was Yokozuna with Mr.

42:21.36
Aaron
Yeah.

42:24.29
Bradley Palermo
Fuji and our buddy Jim Cornette versus The Undertaker with... Paul Bear and this is a casket match with Chuck Norris as a special troubleshooting referee.

42:39.03
Bradley Palermo
um

42:39.20
Aaron
Yes.

42:48.63
Bradley Palermo
yeah.

42:49.91
Aaron
It's fine for what it is. i mean, you know, ive I feel like I've seen, i felt like I've seen this before.

42:51.39
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

42:55.21
Aaron
Like I felt very familiar. It was nothing spectacular.

42:57.01
Bradley Palermo
yeah

42:58.15
Aaron
It was just two big dudes doing big moves. You know, wasn't like a five star banger, but it did what it needed to do. And the crowd loves The Undertaker and they hate Yokozuna.

43:07.87
Bradley Palermo
I think Yokozuna's build at 568 pounds in this. I don't think he's actually 568 pounds, but he is a big dude. um

43:16.60
Aaron
Yeah, he's probably high 400s for sure.

43:16.95
Bradley Palermo
He does look huge. Yeah, I mean, it's it's not that much of an exaggeration, but yeah, they might have thrown on another extra 80 pounds or something, but... um Chuck Norris was kind of a he was on like tech Walker, Texas Ranger, but I don't really love having a fake like fighter from a TV show.

43:30.17
Aaron
Walker, Texas Ranger, yeah.

43:35.85
Bradley Palermo
Come on as the enforcer. Cause

43:37.55
Aaron
Well, but he knows how to fight for real. He just doesn't fight for real, but he knows how to do it.

43:40.67
Bradley Palermo
yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah yeah he's a black belt in like 17 different martial arts and stuff i looked at his wikipedia you know he was kind of loved by all and then he got really mouthy like uh in the bush era about like sort of religious bigotry and and stuff like that and he sort of became divisive but he was at this time he was kind of universally loved like everyone loves chuck norris and

44:01.49
Aaron
Oh

44:04.26
Aaron
oh yeah. Walker Texas Ranger was a big deal back then.

44:08.37
Bradley Palermo
Yeah, and he's pretending to be like a lawman keeping order. this yeah Before everyone knew that he hated gay people, he was a pretty cool guy. but But yeah, I mean, the casket's gigantic.

44:15.57
Aaron
It

44:19.47
Bradley Palermo
The urn is gigantic. The urn is gets bigger every time we fucking see it.

44:21.72
Aaron
is. It is.

44:24.43
Bradley Palermo
The Undertaker's intro, or the Undertaker's entrance, rather, is like I said before in this era, like my favorite entrance in wrestling, it's yeah, it's unreal.

44:33.60
Aaron
Yeah. Mesmerizing.

44:36.89
Bradley Palermo
Thunder, lightning, purple fog, cemetery footage. Of course, Vince McMahon is just going apeshit. this is probably one of Vince's best creations, the undertaker. You know, it's, he's scary.

44:46.49
Aaron
Yeah.

44:47.85
Bradley Palermo
He's big. His hair is in his face. He's got the hat. Like it's just, he's a dark character and he doesn't do any dumb things. things. promos really if he does anything if he says anything it's it's slow it's low and it's creepy and so you don't really know like who this dude is and um Yoko looks freaked out immediately and Undertaker does like the throat slit mannerism and Yoko just like stumbles backwards and falls in fear which I thought he sold as like pretty good fear I really like that that little moment um

45:00.78
Aaron
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

45:11.23
Aaron
yeah

45:19.50
Aaron
you

45:21.95
Bradley Palermo
But yeah, I mean, once once it gets into it, like you said, big guys doing big moves. And I did like when The Undertaker hit old school.

45:42.100
Aaron
does an axe handle or something yeah

45:50.46
Aaron
yank him down yeah but it's impressive for like a 7 foot tall guy to walk the top rope for sure

45:53.39
Bradley Palermo
um

45:56.94
Bradley Palermo
right it's it's like the spot is impressive but it doesn't make sense in like combat sports why you would do that put your make yourself vulnerable by walking the rope but it's

46:03.58
Aaron
okay yeah Yeah. I think in this one though, i mean, so it, you know, it doesn't always feel like this, but I felt like for this one, Yoko was like staggered, you know, like it, he was selling in such a way where it felt like he wasn't really paying attention to what was going on.

46:16.91
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

46:22.45
Aaron
He was kind of like woozy looking almost. So it's sort of, it's sort of, yeah, stuff, stuff like that definitely helps.

46:24.45
Bradley Palermo
Oh, right. Right. it helps. Yeah.

46:28.100
Aaron
um

46:29.68
Bradley Palermo
Yeah. I always have to believe that they're stunned and that's like, I guess what he was doing.

46:30.01
Aaron
But yeah, you know, Yeah. Like, you know, when I, so not to shit on a cause I'd like a W, but there's like moves in a W where they do stuff like that.

46:33.51
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

46:40.32
Aaron
And I'm like, the opponent who is on the mat is so clearly conscious and just watching you.

46:45.83
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

46:46.07
Aaron
Like that's, that's the ones I don't like. i love Ricky Starks or Ricky saints, but he used to do that tightrope walk where he's like strutting and it takes him way longer than an undertaker. And it's like, dude, like this is completely unrealistic.

46:58.70
Bradley Palermo
He still does it in NXT, right?

46:58.95
Aaron
Like, give me a little, give me a break.

47:00.87
Bradley Palermo
He's still doing that shit.

47:00.97
Aaron
He probably does, but yeah, I don't know.

47:01.91
Bradley Palermo
They need to knock it off. yeah

47:04.59
Aaron
It's, it's just, there's a, there's a very fine line with stuff like this. And i think in this particular instance, it felt okay. It doesn't always feel okay. It's obviously not going to get me to like turn off what I'm watching, but I kind of just roll my eyes at him sometimes, you know?

47:19.34
Bradley Palermo
Yeah. So this, again, ah this casket was a coffin, not a casket, I believe. um and But this coffin that they called the casket is so fucking big that...

47:30.18
Aaron
Yeah, because you got to fit sumo in there.

47:32.36
Bradley Palermo
They put both of them in there. They had The Undertaker and Yoko fighting in the fucking thing at one point.

47:34.12
Aaron
Yeah.

47:37.56
Bradley Palermo
I was like, that is a big-ass coffin.

47:39.82
Aaron
Yeah.

47:39.94
Bradley Palermo
um So some lady in the front row, when i think it was when Jim Cornette takes a bump at some point, and some lady in the front row screams. I guess like they got too close to her the fighters, the wrestlers.

47:52.97
Bradley Palermo
um And it definitely like made like the full audio, ah

47:57.24
Aaron
Mm-mm.

47:58.67
Bradley Palermo
So I liked that. um IRS ran in at some point to beat down on Taker and half the roster poured out to help Yoko and Chuck Norris kicks one of them and then just kind of stands there looking pleased with himself.

48:15.15
Bradley Palermo
And eventually Undertaker sits up, no-sells everything, slams the lid shut on Yokozuna. Earn turns into a bright beam of light, like a gigantic flashlight.

48:26.60
Bradley Palermo
And it's pretty ridiculous. Oh, and I didn't mention there is a Paul Bearer ah lookalike in the in the crowd. Paul Bearer, if you guys don't know, is this real chubby guy where he's like mortician.

48:38.87
Bradley Palermo
Well, he I guess he was a funeral director in real life. And when he was in wrestling school, someone was like, wouldn't be funny if your gimmick was Paul Bearer?

48:41.78
Aaron
Yeah.

48:45.78
Bradley Palermo
Get it? And so he puts on this fake, this white face paint and talks in a high voice. And he's really goofy manager. But But yeah, he was, uh, there was the lookalike did a pretty good job. was, I was pretty, that was a commitment, you know?

48:59.38
Aaron
Yeah.

48:59.90
Bradley Palermo
So, um,

49:01.26
Aaron
What did Meltzer give it?

49:02.68
Bradley Palermo
Meltzer gave that one a two and a half stars.

49:05.74
Aaron
Okay.

49:05.74
Bradley Palermo
You know, when i when I talk about this one, I i like that all the the elements that are there. I like that Yoko's there. I like that Undertaker's there. I like that Paul Bearer's there. i I like, you know, i like the and entrance. I don't know.

49:05.90
Aaron
Okay.

49:18.20
Bradley Palermo
its The match is, there's just not that much to it. But it still makes me excited to think about all these guys.

49:22.91
Aaron
no yeah i I liked it I mean Undertaker in a casket match is always high stakes um I had fun with this one for sure

49:31.99
Bradley Palermo
What were his best, what were the Undertaker's like best casket man? Probably like Shawn Michaels or something, right?

49:37.34
Aaron
Yeah, that one that one from like, was that Royal Rumble 98?

49:42.96
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

49:43.30
Aaron
That one was pretty good. um I guess those and like the Buried Alive matches are pretty good. I think he had one with Mankind once that was pretty good.

49:49.48
Bradley Palermo
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That sounds about right. Yeah.

49:53.40
Aaron
and'd have to look him up. But yeah, that they were always pretty fun. um Because it's like his, you know, it just felt like it fit his gimmick.

50:01.44
Bradley Palermo
Yes. All right. So now we're going to get into the grapple grade. Our rating system is a three tier system. Fast forward, play or rewind. Fast forward being boo play being yay.

50:12.74
Bradley Palermo
Rewind being two thumbs up. This one was my pick. So I suppose I will go ahead and give my rating first. Is that how we do it? I think.

50:21.30
Aaron
Yeah. yeah

50:22.02
Bradley Palermo
All right. So Survivor Series 94. Hmm.

50:26.82
Bradley Palermo
It's hard to grade it because this is just sweet, nostalgic sweet spot for me. um I think the Brett versus Backlund thing was really good.

50:38.62
Bradley Palermo
think... think... i think This point in Diesel's career is really interesting as well because he's establishing himself as just this huge badass. And he will go on, you know, to to have a big place. And especially WCW in a couple years from this point.

50:55.77
Bradley Palermo
um The bad stuff is pretty bad. I mean, that Jerry Lawler match was was pretty terrible.

50:58.90
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

51:01.79
Bradley Palermo
um Chuck Norris thing, i could I honestly could probably do it without. um But to me, it was watchable. So I'm going play on it.

51:10.61
Bradley Palermo
I'm definitely not going rewind. I'm not calling it anything required viewing or anything. But um but i can't just I can't shit all over it to the point where I'd give it ah fast forward or anything like that.

51:24.15
Bradley Palermo
If I wasn't from this era, I might feel differently, but it works for me because it's where I kind of came in. What do you say?

51:31.96
Aaron
I'm going to be the grump this week. I, uh, I, I'm not saying that it was, that all of it was horrible from start to finish, but I feel like this is completely skippable in the grand scheme of things.

51:43.66
Aaron
Um, and this is not my era. I came in later. So yeah, this is a fast forward for me. I think, you know, they're the, the best parts. I love Owen Hart. I'm sorry. I love Bret Hart. I also like Owen Hart, but I love Bret Hart.

51:57.55
Aaron
There are so many better Bret Hart matches, in my opinion, than this. Although, for the time, I'm sure this was really interesting and different because... this was the kind of match that you would see in WCW in the early nineties and not in WWF.

52:09.42
Aaron
Um, and I do love the undertaker and I do love Yoko. I liked, thank you. I liked all of the people in the survivor series, the five on five survivor series matches, but again, like they just felt kind of slapped together. i guess if I had known a little bit more about why these people had teamed up and why they were feuding with one another, it might've been more, appealing.

52:32.86
Aaron
I agree macho. And yeah, like you said, the, the Royal family versus clowns are us was absolute garbage and I hated every second of it. Um, so I just feel like anything that was redeemable about this, you could see in another pay-per-view at another period of time.

52:49.15
Aaron
um I did enjoy some things, but it's a fast forward for me, for you, boy, I'm going to be the grump this week.

53:11.22
Bradley Palermo
We always love to hear from you, the Grapple gang out there. You can reach us ah multitude of ways. You can find us on social media. We are at GrappleCityPod on TikTok, Instagram, et cetera, et cetera.

53:27.30
Bradley Palermo
You can email us, GrappleCityPod at gmail.com.

53:28.28
Aaron
Thank you.

53:32.08
Bradley Palermo
You can call our hotline, 626-657-SLAM! six five seven lamb

53:42.39
Bradley Palermo
626-657-SLAM. That will lead you to our Google voice voicemail. We will not pick up and you will get ah moment to say whatever it is you want to say.

53:52.16
Bradley Palermo
you can tell us which matches we should watch next. You can tell us what we were right or wrong about, or you can do like some folks have done and cut a promo on Aaron, cut a promo on me, cut a promo on the show.

54:04.84
Bradley Palermo
We always love to hear from you. This week, let's see, let me pull up something that that I thought was interesting. Oh, going back to the Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, Halloween Havoc.

54:17.49
Bradley Palermo
Was it 97?

54:18.64
Aaron
Yes.

54:18.91
Bradley Palermo
match that we spoke about a couple weeks back. um Caddy on TikTok messaged me and said that he loves this match, but it's patient zero for why wrestling is just a bunch of high spots now.

54:33.98
Aaron
Hmm.

54:34.11
Bradley Palermo
So he thinks it had a negative effect on professional wrestling over time. You know, I don't know if I agree. I think, you know, it was that match was a bunch of which a bunch of crazy awesome spots. And I think that that's that's cool when there's a high spot match and it's good.

54:52.87
Bradley Palermo
Just like how it's cool when there's a death match and it's really good. Most of time, you know, you get a lot of the... undercard stuff or you just get like indie stuff or things that aren't fleshed out well but you still i mean you still get old school styles with wrestlers nowadays and you still get some of the you i mean i know in aw you do get like ah maybe too many matches that are all just flashy high spot stuff and it doesn't look natural but what do you think aaron

55:18.52
Aaron
I mean, i i I agree that there are plenty of matches nowadays that are filled with nothing but high spots, but I don't think that the Rey Mysterio-Eddie Guerrero match is the reason for it. I think...

55:32.86
Aaron
that match is Lucha cruiserweight match and it was just perfect. There were no mistakes. This type of match has existed for years before we saw this match in its place in time and was, you know, improved upon as the years went on. Um, I think that,

55:54.32
Aaron
this match had story and had context. Whereas, you know, sometimes in like an indie high spot match, it's just, you put two people together and they're just trying to get all their moves in.

56:05.62
Bradley Palermo
Right.

56:06.06
Aaron
That's not what this was. This wasn't them trying to get their shit in.

56:09.47
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

56:09.57
Aaron
so that they could prove how good they were. This was them telling a story in the ring. Ray is the smaller opponent. He's going to have to move quicker. He's going to have to do riskier stuff. And Eddie is a shitty heel. Who's always trying to manipulate, always trying to get the advantage and doing heel things. So like, you know,

56:27.57
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

56:28.25
Aaron
slightly disagree with whoever left that comment. I think it's ah it's a great match and I don't think that it's the the beginning of the end for you know ah quality wrestling.

56:37.48
Bradley Palermo
Yeah,

56:38.82
Aaron
I think that there's a lot of companies and a lot of people who contributed to where we are now.

56:44.44
Bradley Palermo
yeah I agree with that. Well said. So this week was my call, Aaron. I think that puts the ball in your court to pick what we watch for next episode.

56:56.30
Bradley Palermo
And have you thought about that? Or do you want to pick one out of thin air? What do you think?

57:01.44
Aaron
Yeah, I didn't think about it. I just started perusing as we were talking, and I think I got a good one. um Let's stick with Survivor Series, but let's jump ahead in time to Survivor Series 2002, 2002, which is the debut of the Elimination Chamber match.

57:19.60
Bradley Palermo
Interesting. I.

57:20.55
Aaron
So highlights on this one, um Dudley boys and Jeff Hardy are teaming up together. a Big show against Brock Lesnar and the Elimination Chamber match is Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Kane, Booker T, Chris Jericho and RVD.

57:37.53
Aaron
So we're back in that period of time that we've been watching some stuff, but we get Shawn Michaels back, which is going to be fun.

57:40.91
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

57:43.63
Bradley Palermo
Yeah, we've seen some 2001 stuff, some 2002 stuff. um So we're kind of hanging out in that in that range lately. So i'm I'm starting to get a good grasp on the usual suspects from that era.

57:55.58
Aaron
Just like and the um early to mid nineties is you're like preteens.

57:55.96
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

57:59.54
Aaron
This is me. Well, I was 13 when this happened. So

58:01.77
Bradley Palermo
Yeah, yeah. yeah notice You notice you gravitate towards like early 2000. I gravitate towards its like early 90s or mid-90s.

58:05.78
Aaron
yeah.

58:08.04
Bradley Palermo
Yeah.

58:08.64
Aaron
Mid nineties.

58:08.60
Bradley Palermo
But um I like stuff before my time too.

58:09.27
Aaron
Yeah.

58:11.91
Bradley Palermo
But I like...

58:12.18
Aaron
Yeah.

58:13.83
Bradley Palermo
I don't know. I guess I just like professional wrestling. It's hard to to pick one era over another. i Yeah. Well, good episode. Good times. That's all we've got time for two today.

58:25.19
Bradley Palermo
we will, uh, yes, this is make sure you don't forget. Don't forget to leave us a little review. If you get a chance, it just helps us get the word out there a little bit better. And thanks to all of you guys that have already done that for us in the past.

58:37.80
Aaron
All right, everybody. We'll catch you in the cheap seats. Adios.